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Event Directors & Course Setters
  • Topic created by DaveUrban on Mon Jun 24, 2019 at 10:26 am
    Dave Urban (DaveUrban)
    DaveUrban
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    Primary Club: DVOA
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    At Sunday's Summer meeting there was,once again, discussion on schedules and lack of Event Directors & Course Setters. This question is for discussion on the Eboard and by the DVOA Board: What would it take for DVOA to hire professional Event Directors and Course Setters? I believe this could be an answer to help fill our event schedule.
  • Reply by Steve on Mon Jun 24, 2019 at 11:38 am
    Steve Aronson (Steve)
    Steve
    Num Posts: 382
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 1993
    I can not imagine anyone that is qualified to be a course setter that would give any more of the dedication required simply for money. 

    The man-hours to design five courses (WYOGR) is about 50 - 60 hours. This includes design, field checking, condes, map printing and bagging, and the day of event. The Course setter usually hangs flags the day before, which can be another 6 hours. I do not think we have ever put on an event that had that much profit.

    I enjoy being able to orienteer without being on the clock. If something does not look right, I get to attack the same feature from two or three angles. It is not unusual for me to lose track of time while wandering around enjoying the great outdoors. I know my mental skills get better everytime I set courses, even after doing it for 25 years. DO NOT LET ME SCARE YOU OFF. You can do it with some guidance and encouragement, which the club is happy to provide.
  • Reply by furlong47 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 at 11:59 am
    Julie Keim (furlong47)
    furlong47
    Num Posts: 354
    Primary Club: SVO
    Fav map: Fair Hill 1:15,000
    First O: 1994
    I think there is a club or two out west trying this on the event director side of things. I also think it's easier to do with ED vs course setters, especially if you are looking at hiring outside folks. Someone who already has skills organizing other types of events can quickly learn to organize for orienteering, but setting courses  obviously has a much bigger learning curve. (However, I think the club trying this did hire existing orienteers.)

    A big, obvious problem is that the current fee structure won't allow it. It might work if you only have a paid ED for national events, otherwise you are going to have to raise local event fees a lot. And people are still going to have to volunteer for all the other positions,  because you can't afford to pay everybody, so now most people are paying more to attend the event and still having to do volunteer work. And if you have a paid ED for some local events, I think you need to have one for all of the local events, because it's not fair to pay some people but not others for the same job (unless they refuse it).

    On the other hand, I think a lot of people are already giving all of the time and effort they can or are willing to give. Money will not necessarily change that. It can't create more hours in a day or reduce someone's stress level.

    This type of thing may work better if groups of people got together and started businesses to hold events, rather than trying to do it within the existing club structure. I think that would need to happen  overall on a national level and ultimately require changes in OUSA structure to be viable.

    I do think we need to figure out how to get more people involved.  I don't have the answer to that, but it can't be piling more and more on those who already volunteer. Also, I think there needs to be a realization that some people will never have the personality or desire to be an ED, CS, or any leadership position even if they have enough skills/experience and that should be ok. Someone who just wants to pick up controls every week or run registration or train beginners or do website work should be thanked for their contributions and not made to feel guilty. In fact, without those people the ED's job becomes impossible. 
  • Reply by Magna111 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 at 12:27 pm
    Brad Colbeck (Magna111)
    Magna111
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    I can?t speak for everyone, but as someone newer to the club and orienteering, I wouldn't feel like I?m qualified to do either of those jobs (I also don?t currently have the time). If there was interest from a bunch of us less experience members, would it make sense to offer a ?class? on what?s involved in being a event director or course setter?
  • Reply by JanetT on Tue Jun 25, 2019 at 12:43 pm
    Janet Tryson (JanetT)
    JanetT
    Num Posts: 115
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 1990
    I think the club out west that Julie's referring to is Cascade (COC), who also has a school interscholastic league (partly because many of their maps only lend themselves to W-Y-O level courses).

    Their paid Event Director is responsible for most of the preliminary contact that the club has with locations but not any of the technical side (course design and setting). Here is their call for applicants from a couple years ago to give you an idea of what might be included in responsibilities:

    http://cascadeoc.org/2017/03/open-position-event-director/
  • Reply by kathyu on Tue Jun 25, 2019 at 4:03 pm
    Kathy Urban (kathyu)
    kathyu
    Num Posts: 671
    Primary Club: DVOA
    Fav map: Hickory Run Sand Spring
    First O: 2004
    Wow, that COC "want ad" was interesting reading.  The ED duties were well thought out.  

    One issue we may have to deal with is the amount of equipment that has to be transported to a Sunday meet.  Eveything for an evening sprint or a training meet seems to fit in a small SUV but the full kit is a tight fit.  It's the jugs or Dave, but not both!  Of course, the course setter parts of the kit often go off on their own with the course setter so that helps.  
  • Reply by furlong47 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 at 5:11 pm
    Julie Keim (furlong47)
    furlong47
    Num Posts: 354
    Primary Club: SVO
    Fav map: Fair Hill 1:15,000
    First O: 1994
    I thought one of the California clubs was paying someone as well, at least part of the time, but I can't seem to find the post where I read that at the moment. I believe there may be some Canadian clubs with paid staff as well. 

    A class may be an idea, maybe at the winter meeting, or perhaps something to consider adding as a training option at Hickory Run in the future? Also connecting newbie ED and CS with an experienced mentor to guide them through the first one or two times. Something we have also done at SVO is split the CS duties so a first time setter works on WY and maybe O and a more experienced setter does the advanced courses and advises.
  • Reply by Guy-O on Wed Jun 26, 2019 at 7:51 am
    Guy Olsen (Guy-O)
    Guy-O
    Num Posts: 356
    Primary Club: HVO
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    First O: 1982
    I believe BAOC uses Western Race Services* at many of its events.

    * - Basically long-time BAOC member Jay Hann.
  • Reply by skolins on Wed Jun 26, 2019 at 4:14 pm
    Samuel  Kolins (skolins)
    skolins
    Num Posts: 180
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 2012
    Echoing Julie's point, I think there is a lot of value in having a mentor to guide you though the CS process the first time.  When I first course set, Tom O. helped me out a lot.  He sent me some slides about course setting and the CONDES system, gave useful suggestions on drafts of my courses that helped teach me course setting principles, and provided feedback on control hanging after the event.  I would have found course-setting for the first time pretty intimidating without his guideance.  Depending on peoples concerns, we could also have a fellow-orienteer provide vetting for a first time course setting (I know that mis-placing a contorol was, and is, a fear of mine).

    I don't know what the best mechanism for connecting people interested in course setting with mentors would be, but I would be happy to help a new-course setter in this way, and I imagine other club members would too.
  • Reply by Tom-O on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 6:35 am
    Tom Overbaugh (Tom-O)
    Tom-O
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    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 1979
    We have offered half-day course setting training sessions probably 4 times in the last 10 years. We had good attendance at the training but only a few people went on to set courses. We offered to pair beginning course setters with mentors to help them through the process.  

    To provide adequate training, you really need about a 4 hour long session.  there is not enough time avalable at the winter meeting or Hickory Run to do it justice.  I am certainly willing to offer the training again but it would be nice to see more return on the investment.

    I think one thing that holds people back is fear of failure.  Using a mentor system can greatly reduce the likelihood of bad outcomes.  We are also open to people doing only a White/Yellow/Orange event to make things easier for first time course setters.

    Dave's original post regarding hiring professional course setters / event directors implies that such service exist.  Even if they did, it would likely require at least doubling our event fees.  We are currently essentially a break-even enterprise.  Large fee increases could reduce attendance at events particularly among young people and families which are vital to the growth of the sport.  It would also probably mean fewer events.

    If people want to continue enjoying orienteering on most weekends in the spring and fall, more course setter volunteers are needed.  While it takes some time, setting courses is really not that hard and can be a lot of fun.
  • Reply by edscott on Thu Jun 27, 2019 at 12:30 pm
    Ed Scott (edscott)
    edscott
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    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 1983
    My first experience in course setting was following John Edwards around Warwick as he set courses for a meet sometime in the early to mid '80s. Finding newer members that are willing to learn and matching them up with experienced members can produce a new generation of course setters.  We shouldn't have to pay members to support our club.
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